Grindcore - an amalgamate of punk, hardcore, and metal; the name is referential to the latter two styles. Aspects of each style are usually represented over the span of shorter-than-the-pop-standard 2minute songs.

Originally started as a protest music, grind songs are short, fast, and with many transitions in order to counteract "composed" and longer forms of song writing.


Common Grindcore characteristics include -- though are not limited to -- the following:

-numerous, and sometimes wild. changes
-short songs
-definitive "blast" beat, involving snare hits on nearly every beat of a measure, often 16th or 32nd notes.
-fast speed likened to "grinding", somewhat comparable to the "axe" (or guitar) being "ground" (tremolo picked) with a plectrum.
-political, satirical, or volatile lyrics
-provocative song titles, artwork, and messages


Early acts from the mid 80's to earlier 90's that helped set the stage for Grind include:

DRI
Deep Wound
Siege
Anal Cunt
Disrupt

check this page for more interesting stuff:

http://www.geocities.com/repulsion_band/agrindhistory.html

ok but it's not news

What exactly is the point of this

everyone is gay, the only good grind band is daughters

oh it's news alright. trust me.

this thread makes me giggle

Thank you for this pointless thread

boooring.

yawn

THERE IZ N0 TR00 GR1ND N E MORE, FUK U GUYZ, I PLAY ONLY TR00 MUZIK.

Im gonna start a grind band called Rommel McDonald... anyone want in?

Will you have songs that find holocaust jokes in everyday products
i.e.
"Pillsbury Toaster Jewdel"

i had a brief stint in the powerviolence band "jem and the holocausts" i still have songs

oh yes, this IS indeed news.

oh yes.

pointless? don't make me laugh.

daughters isn't grind

it fits the criteria.

I think "grind" doesn't mean "good" although Grind is very good. "Grind" means "Grindcore" and is prone to the definition above. Just caust you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't what it is.

The kid on that links said Dillenger Escape Plan is Grind. Doesn't fit the criteria, though, but...the stuff on Under The Running Board does.... (or was the EP called "The Mullet Burden"? one of the two)

grind that sounds like metalcore is metalcore, no mistakes about it. grind that is heavy and doesn't sound like metalcore is grind, not metalcore.

good thread, i was gonna make one like this since the definition of grind changes every fucking week and every gawd damn person in the world has their own special opinion on what it is. I was taught that Bolt Thrower was grind.

bolt thrower is for faggots and hicks. daughters and sex positions are the best grind bands ever, and carcass ripped off all thier songs from cat stevens.

*Yawn*

spazz

Yeah, based on the most common grind criteria, I have no idea why early Carcass is so commonly referred to as grind.

Spazz is powerviolence

p.s. --- that was me on that last one... and im a huge powerviolence fan

I wouldn't know where to begin in explaining Powerviolence

I'm pretty sure it's grind at 500 mph with fewer deviations from the "blast" and MUCH shorter songs.

true, but funnier songs, usually they arent worth the paper they're printed on... so much more amuzing to read... escpecially spazz

my goal is to help people remember grind / crust / powerviolence / sludge / doom / noise.


I want to start a program where we go to schools and teach a class, once a week, throughout Greater Boston, on the history and impact of those above genres.

Then we will have crusty, smelly little kids who all bang on their desks like DUTDUTDUTDUTDUTDUT during class.

what a country!

I want in

..wait, except all the crust "punks" ive met in the last 6 months are the biggest fuckin retards ive ever met in my life, and dont have a clue

this threads gonna make me go put on some Man is the Bastard

i can't believe napalm death and carcass weren't noted as grind's most important bands. napalm death has been together longer than any other "grind" band, and they're not noted??!! bah! carcass has influenced bands in a million different genres, as well as grind, and they get nothin...as far as i'm concerned, those 2 bands alone made grind important. even if napalm death is all about politics and related issues and carcass was all about gore and medical mishaps, etc. (in the early days at least), they represent the "era" when grind was solidified. i'm not sure if i can say napalm death were the originators of grind, but they are 100% grind all the way. not saying any of the other bands listed up there aren't grind or aren't important, keep in mind.

and while we're on the topic...
i keep hearing people call pig destroyer "metalcore." someone explain to me how that is...i don't think i've ever heard any metalcore-esque material from them. sure they have a lot of metal and lot of hardcore elements in their music, but that's 2 main parts of grind...they don't have singalongs, boring 1 chord slams...come to think of it, most of their breakdowns are thrash, punk and old school hardcore breakdowns, hardly ever any "slams"...they don't write about the same shit that metalcore bands do, they don't have the same recycled melodies and uniform "dance parts." no one has the right to determine the style of any band, unless it is very clear in their sound and other aspects.

i've also heard daughters called metalcore...that's not metalcore, that's just shitty music. what is metalcore anyway??? is it integrity? all out war? maybe even earth crisis to some? or is it bands like FATA, norma jean, every time i die, and the like? or is every band that ever uses a breakdown outside of straight up hardcore considered metalcore? who here has ever heard of a tiny thrash band called slayer? remember that song "raining blood" with the one chord slam riff in it??? uh oh, i think old slayer is metalcore now too! alert the presses! fuckers.

sorry i had to rant for so long, but i'm waiting for ink to dry and i'm rekindling fond thoughts of people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to music. no offense to anyone in particular, unless you are offended. then good...hah!

I believe metalcore is the name given to Killswitch Engage, Shadow's Fall, etc.

i'll agree with you on killswitch engage, but definitely not shadows fall. as far as i'm concerned, shadows fall has no "core" to them at all. i will say that at certain times you can hear a bit of hardcore influence, but i don't think it's prevalent enough to be noted as "metalcore."

i believe metalcore is becoming too broad in its definition these days. when metalcore was first reaching the surface, bands like integrity, all out war, forty days rain, prayer for cleansing, overcast, etc. defined metalcore. that's before everyone hated the term and the genre itself, and also before there were so many bands labelled metalcore. each band had their own brand of metalcore, or metallic hardcore, whatever you want to call it, with some of the same formulas and overall style. nearly equal parts metal and equal parts hardcore.

these days, it seems everything that cannot be easily described as metal, hardcore or grind is just tossed into the metalcore category, which is on the verge of becoming a total embarrassment to the bands lumped into the category against will. bands around now that i would say are metalcore are unearth, bleeding through, killswitch engage, caliban, etc. then you've got people calling "screamo," or "emocore" bands metalcore. there may be elements of metal and hardcore in their shit, but there's a heavy emphasis on the emo, only with screaming and yelling.

anyway, i could go on forever on how i think about music as a whole in a million different ways, but i won't.

back to the grind

please dont detour the grind thread... im enjoying it

i know i know...thus why i stopped myself and said back to the grind. aaaaand go.

Metalcore is metal influenced hardcore. Think poison the well, remembering never, hopesfall, Shai Halud. Normally, hardcore is punk influenced. Think Slapshot, Judge, DYS, etc.

Bands like Shadows Fall, Killswitch, and Unearth, etc... - well, there's been music like that forever. It's called METAL. Why when Death Angel, Forbidden, Exodus, and Metallica did it was it any different? Unearth IS a bit metalcore, as the vocals are all hardcore style, but the music is much more metal than most bands in the genre.

This is why I hate labels. They serve an incredibly good purpose at first, but then people twist the shit out of them til they have no clue what they're talking about.

daughters IS NOT GRIND!!!!

T.O.ciggs

thank you for posting this!!!!!

half the people on this board had very misinformed definitions of the word grindcore!

i'd say the definition you posted is like 97 percent accurate

the only inaccuracy is the metal incorpration.....though there are some grind bands who play thrash riffs, most grind bands are more a mixture of crust punk and old school hardcore played alot faster with harsher vocals....

but seriously....good post

and also....i must agree with justin
DAUGHTERS IS NOT FUCKING GRIND!!!!!!!

this is becoming quite the informative and productive thread, if i may say so myself. the general consensus is that daughters is not grind...this is a good thing. i think that's all the progress we need, haha

no... what we need is more local grindcore... to expand, so in the future its easier to teach to people that dont know...... and this is where i tell you to resort up higher in this thread, WHO WANTS IN ON ROMMEL MCDONALD???? hahaha

i'll jam...i still don't have a band. where do you hail from? arr

Ye ol' Millis MA

ps- next to milford, if that helps

my girlfriend kinda lives near there, in framingham...i believe milford is about a half hour away maybe?

ya, framingham is 1 town away from me ther other direction... only prob is i only sing and suck really back with a bass, but i break stuff really good and scare people

i play guitar and i can do crazy inhales if i have the right beverages. i can do a blast beat for like 10 seconds too...there we go, grind band!

alright, and we can just take each post on this thread and make songs... DONE... we already got an album

we can also use some of my songs i've had written for a while...great classics such as

humungous humunculus
call me old fashioned, but being gay is for queers
epic of the screaming sea gull
ass mullet
etc.

what's kinda funny is that i'm not racist and hate nazis, yet the name of this band is "rommel mcdonald." oh the irony

well that was the first thing i thought of when deciding this the other day, and a WWII rommel special was on the history channel while i was typing, TADA band name

haha, there ya go

daughters IS grind, not like those shit bands like fuck the facts, ion dissonance, and pig destroyer. daughters redefined what heavy music is and changed the face of grind forever...now all these bands like lymphatic phlegm and negligent collateral collapse are just biting theior sound. earth crisis is another great grind band too

we want to try to start a circle pit for our song wages of sin...there's a buildup in it that would be perfect to start one as long as there were enough willing people to do it

whoops...wrong thread...i'll go ahead and post that in the correct one

most grind sucks ass. very few bands i've seen can do it and make it sound good and not like untalented jargonic cacaphony

im going to use the word jargonic everywhere i go

I think this has been said a million times. let's bring it up some more.

let's also bring up hardcore vs metal

let's also discuss dancing at shows

how about...we don't.

bownt

Top 5 grind albums:
Repulsion-Horrified
Napalm Death-From Enslavement to Obliteration
Brutal Truth-Extreme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses
324-Customized Circle
Fear of God-As Statues Fell

If a band sounds ridiculous being lumped in with any of the above, its not a fucking grindcore band.

genres used to be for classifying bands. now they're just basis for stupid retards to argue. everywhere i go. this isn't grind; that's not grindcore, this is. everyone has got to stop. if a band says they belong in the genre don't fight it; just let it be. i guess if some stupid retard says otherwise you might as well argue about it, right? WRONG!! if you don't value someones opinion, which is why you disagree, just forget about it.

dogshit said:

Isn't that what the internet is for?

the_taste_of_cigarettes said:

Who would ever consider DRI to be grind? They were crossover, which meant a thrash/hxc hybrid. As for Siege...they were more hxc and slightly proto-grind. Not all grind has to be political either. Instead of that whole big description, you could sum up grind like this.... De-tuned punk riffs, blasting, scream/growl trade offs, and should always be blitz (very short songs). Listen to Discordance Axis, 324, Nyctophobic, Mule Skinner, Dahmer and Terrorizer for real grind. Another thing... fuck all nu hxc kids who think that by screaming nonsense into a mic, and making a stupid DEP rip off noise with the guitar, that their band is grind. I hope you fall into a lake of acid.

Mike_FOD said:

That's the point of the thread, to clear up situations like this one.

1) You name some later acts in order to support who started the genre. The problem is, you can't be part of a later generation of the genre and be considered an originator / developer so much. True, Terrorizer helped start it, but DA? as much as I like them, that's kinda ridiculous to say they helped start grind.

2) De-Tuned punk riffs, blasting, scream/growl trade offs? That's horrible inaccurate. Many grind bands don't detune at ALL, there's more than just blasting involved (look at EVERY early grind band...), and not all grind bands trade screams/and growls. Although you can find those things IN grind, those do not DEFINE grind. Those are in MANY other styles of music.

3) DRI is recognized as being influential in the development of the grind platform, as is Anal Cunt. Napalm Death DEFINITELY would be in there, too. Much like Early Rock N Roll only bears a moderate resemblance to today's "rock n roll", same goes for early grind development. They didn't have Pig Destroyer to listen to back then, so it didn't sound like Pig Destroyer -- it sounded like "thrash/hxc hybrid". This paved the way for more hybridized musics.

It's not that genre matters -- who the fuck cares what genre something is? -- it is to help people understand our beautiful grind heritage.

If D.R.I. broke up after the first record they'd probably be considered the fathers of grindcore today.

If Mick Harris hadn't cited Siege as a huge influence no one would even remember them. There was faster bands before them.

i doubt mike listed DA as a grind originator as much as he did for their innovative style they created with grind. who really played grind like that before DA?

ArrowHead said:

You have to be kidding me... SHADOWS FALL these days HAS removed most of the Hardcore from their sound to become a kind of generic modern Metal band, but KILLSWITCH ENGAGE and UNEARTH are NOT strictly Metal bands by any means. These bands probably don't even listen to EXODUS or FORBIDDEN, they sound like their main influences are mid-late 90's Victory bands.

Mike_FOD said:

Great post... Though I agree with Josh about early early DRI.

napalm death has been together longer than any other "grind" band

fear of god was doing better shit than them way before ND was grind...dont get me wrong ND fuckin kills but i think fear of god was better at it.

Some grind bands i think should get some credit

Cripple Bastards/Fear of god/Repulision/Impetigo/Gore beyond necropsy/Gut(the one from germany)/tMiligant tumor/Squashed bowles/Catasexual urge motivation/Ulcer/Cream Face/Human Greed
very early phobia/some dropdead stuff all though they hate it when peopel call them a grind band/dead infection/CSSO/Sore throat/Hellnation/Paterina/the first carcass demo was grind i dont care after that they were a metal band/Meat shits/Anal whore/Brutal truth

i could go on and on but i know all of you know whats up with grind...

projectilevomit said:

I like you. Nice screename. Think I'll IM you because I'm bored

go for it man

projectilevomit said:


i was just noting that napalm death is one of the longest running grind bands and has influenced a shitload of bands during their time and after their time, spanning many genres. i haven't heard much fear of god...i can say they are definitely awesome from what i've heard so far though.

also, good call on phobia. i'm surprised i forgot to think of them

I hate all this new grindcore thats so clean sounding and revolve there songs around mosh breakdowns that go into blast beats and are not interesting in anyway. I call them metalcore or just bad.

I enjoy my grindcore the same as I enjoy my women, dirty.

projectilevomit said:

That's not true. Scum was recorded in 86. Fear of God didn't form until 87.

Dissector said:

awwww. how cute!

all you need to know

Discordance Axis = grindcore

Deaddeaddeath = cowboy boot homoerotic foolishness

Check out my Grind post!..

oxwhq

attendmyrequiem said:

Te-Hehehehe, it's just whenever anybody mentions Impetigo I get all warm and fuzzy inside.

BestialOnslaught said:

Shadows Fall never sounded anything like hardcore, so I've got no idea what you're talking about there.

I think maybe we're dealing with a generation gap here or something. I grew up listening to hardcore and metal in the early 80's. When I hear a band like Back of Tha Neck, or Terror, or Cheech, that's what hardcore used to sound like. When I hear the bands people refer to as hardcore nowadays, I don't really consider it to be hardcore. Maybe hardcore influenced, but in the same way one might call Led Zeppelin blues influenced, or Dave Matthews folk influenced.

Bands like Killswitch and Unearth are in no way hardcore, musically. As I said before, the only thing about thier music I would relate in any way to hardcore music would be the screamed vocals. Hardcore is a derivative of punk. Please show me the sloppy 3 chord riffs, or the jangly guitars, or the gang vocal choruses, or anything I could consider hardcore about thier sounds.

By the way, to further show where I stand on the issue, I honestly don't think 90% of the people on this board have the slightest clue what "hardcore" music is. I'm not calling you guys ignorant, I'm just saying that the genre has been widened and mutated so badly since it's inception that there's very few bands around nowadays that play hardcore music. Back in the day I was lucky enough to watch bands like Stars and Stripes, DYS, Slapshot, Murphy's Law, Judge, the Bruisers, Sheer Terror, etc... change the entire punk/skinhead scene and spur the entire hardcore movement in boston and NY. Since then, a few bands like Bane, Terror, etc.. have continued on with the style, but otherwise the term "hardcore" has been adopted and misused by all kinds of bands that never would have fit on the bill with a single one of these bands. I see it all the time, people refer to thier bands as "hardcore" thinking that that means they're heavy, or underground, or whatever.

i agree that there a lot of "hardcore" bands these days that aren't exactly the hardcore you speak of. granted, those bands are definitely hardcore, and all damn good ones at that (minus bane, can't stand em, but that's beside the point...), but the times have changed, and bands have changed with it.

these days, there are a million sub genres/classifications since the sound of hardcore has changed so much. same goes with metal. back when hardcore was started, it was all just hardcore. plain and simple. when metal started to solidify, it was just metal. but since both styles have been around for decades now, there have been many changes. now there's old school hardcore, new school hardcore as a broad term, brutal hardcore, emotional hardcore, metallic hardcore, etc. and with metal, you've got thrash, old school death metal, brutal death, progressive metal, power metal, black metal, melodic metal, etc etc.

then there are styles that have been adopted from mixing genres together (not just hardcore and metal), to make such styles as grind and metalcore. as far as unearth and killswitch go, i can see the reasoning in placing them in the metal category. i believe both bands have straightforward and underlying elements/influences of hardcore and metal alike, thus why i would call them metalcore. they may not have elements of the hardcore stylings we know of that started it all, but as far as what's going on today in music, both bands have elements of metal and hardcore.

unearth have a shitload of breakdowns, most of which stem from hardcore. granted, metal probably used more slam riffs than hardcore in the beginning, whether moshy or not, but there is definitely a difference between a metal slam and a hardcore breakdown. the vocals, as you mentioned are way more hardcore oriented in unearth. in fact, i don't think there is any variation at all in the vocals. most of the music is metal oriented, i will admit, but not enough for me to consider them full on metal.

killswitch engage's vocals are also hardcore oriented most of the time as you mentioned, with very little metal vocal stylings mixed in. the clean singing can be found more in metal i suppose rather than hardcore. the drums are very "gallop" oriented most of the time, a style used both in metal and hardcore, but this leans more in the hardcore direction for me. i don't blame anyone for calling unearth or killswitch engage metal, but i'm just saying that to my ears, they sound more like the metalcore category. maybe if the metalcore genre wasn't looked down upon so much as the bastard son of metal and hardcore, we'd all be a little bit easier on ourselves when it comes to this sort of debate.

again, i will say that there is no possible way shadows fall is metalcore...i hate to beat a dead horse, but whatever. i'm bored and need to kill some time.

also, i'll note that a shitload of the originators of hardcore,and many other notable hardcore acts, have said that hardcore is all about what you want to do and what is true to you, not necessarily a guideline on how the music should sound. one band that you listed, sheer terror, stated that they never wanted to make the same album over and over again, like most old school (and newer as well) hardcore acts did. they incorporated many elements outside of the hardcore genre, thus openning up new doorways to other hardcore bands. this showed the "hardcore community" or whatever you want to call it that there were more opportunities, so many other bands started incorporating foreign elements into hardcore. so from the old school hardcore you speak of, bands like earth crisis and madball arose, and now bands like full blown chaos, etc. to me, none of those bands sound the same but do fit into the hardcore category. there may be a lot of bands that call themselves hardcore and don't deserve to call themselves that because of their beliefs, sound, etc., but there are still a lot that can safely fit under the hardcore moniker, without having to sound like all the old bands that started hardcore.

damn, that was too long. check plus to anyone who actually reads this all the way through.

"probably don't even listen to Exodus or Forbidden"

easily the dumbest thing ever said throughout history.

XmikeX said:

Next to your post about Discordance Axis?

All I have to say is that I'm sick of hearing people call Daughters, the Locust, Dillinger Escape Plan, As The Sun Sets...grind bands. These band are not fucking grindcore for shit, they're not metal either but certainly not grindcore...
There's not that many US grindcore band as far as I can think off....Impetigo, Hideous Mangleous, Repulsion, Assuck, Excrutiating Terror
The older euro bands like Patareni, Fear Of God, and Napalm Death (Scum and FETO), I worship.

I am with you Anne, this is war!

this thread is gay.
all i got out of it was putting the 'proto-' before a genre of music makes me think that it is that genre played by robots.





human grindcore is obsolete.